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Jadine Chou is leaving her position as Chicago Public Faculties Chief of Security and Safety after 14 years — a tenure not typically seen in district management roles.
Chou oversaw the security plans after the closure of fifty faculties in 2013, grappled with spikes in youth violence, handled the disconnection introduced on by the COVID-19 pandemic, and managed the removing of police from faculties starting in 2020.
She first got here to CPS in 2011 underneath then-Mayor Rahm Emanuel from the Chicago Housing Authority, the place she served as senior vice chairman. She was the primary Asian and first feminine to carry the position, which was traditionally stuffed by somebody with a regulation enforcement background.
Chalkbeat sat down with Chou lately for a dialog about her time at CPS and what’s in retailer subsequent. This interview was edited for size and readability.
You’ve been on the faculty district for 14 years, by three mayors, seven CPS CEOs, dozens of board members, Taylor Swift launched 9 completely different albums in that point. Wanting again, how do you outline the eras you’ve been right here?
There’s a cliche that the one factor fixed is change. And going into this, I knew that was going to be the case. One may argue possibly it shouldn’t have occurred as typically because it occurred. It occurred rather a lot. We had numerous change right here, however one factor that was very useful was within the Workplace of Security and Safety, with me being right here 14 years, and with my staff having excessive retention, they’ve stayed with me this entire time, we’ve been in a position to maintain issues regular whereas all the things else was transferring on round us.
How did you do it? Was it ever tempting to go away or to not stick round? It’s a very long time for a chief to remain in any group, notably CPS.
For one factor, I really feel like I had landed at a spot the place I actually felt like I used to be at house. I felt like all the roads main as much as this had been the explanation I got here right here. I felt good concerning the work I had at CHA (Chicago Housing Authority) however coming right here expanded that to on the time, over 400,000 households. Making connections with particular person households, dad and mom, college students and principals and lecturers actually felt a pure match for me.
What’s the position of the Workplace of Security and Safety and has it advanced?
After I first arrived, we had been sort of like Domino’s Pizza. Individuals would simply wait till you bought a name: “We’d like you on the faculty” or “We’d like you to deal with this example.” Very reactive. That’s one thing we don’t love to do in security.
After I was on the Chicago Housing Authority, if you happen to wait till one thing occurs, it’s too late. It’s already occurred. And so we instantly mentioned: How can we transfer upstream from that? How can we discover what is going on earlier than it occurs, so we are able to stop it? That was one of many first issues we did.
However folks thought, “Oh, why are you right here? We didn’t name you.” It was actually altering, type of the tradition and the mindset to say, “We’re right here not as a result of we wish to be in your means. We’re right here as a result of we wish to be useful in ensuring that dangerous issues don’t occur.” You may solely try this by constructing relationships. After getting these relationships, they usually see the worth that the staff can add, then they begin being somewhat bit extra receptive to that tradition evolution.
Do you suppose that it’s a misnomer that the safety division is supposed to be one other stage of policing?
That’s completely deliberately what it was in 2011. That was safety’s position. I imply, they weren’t cops as a result of they’re not sworn, they don’t carry weapons, however they’re meant to be enforcers. If a pupil violates the Pupil Code of Conduct, safety is the primary individual that’s going to come back handle it. They’re going to choose you up out of the room and stroll you all the way down to the principal’s workplace.
We heard from college students time and again that doesn’t make anyone really feel safer. Even when I’m not the one who’s committing the infraction, once I see my classmates being walked out of there like they’re criminals, I don’t really feel protected as a result of possibly I’m subsequent.
That’s what we tried to show round. What’s the position of safety? That first summer season that I used to be right here, after interviewing all these college students and principals, we completely turned it on its head. And we’re saying, Okay, we’re going to have to do that in another way,
I had buy-in from the highest all the best way as much as the mayor to show this out on its head. So it wasn’t only one particular person doing this on my own. I had buy-in from the cupboard stage. Individuals mentioned, “Let’s determine this out, as a result of this isn’t working. We’re suspending too many children, and each week there’s a giant battle, each week we’re arresting too many children.”
So, what does it imply to construct relationships? What does it imply to help college students? How do you modify that mindset? And the reply is: we introduced that safety officer’s private experiences into it. What did you expertise while you had been in class? They might speak about their traumas, and we had numerous grown adults break down and cry as a result of the trauma got here again. We mentioned, “Clearly you’ve made your self a profession and also you’re a safety officer. Now, what modified?” They usually mentioned, “An grownup reached all the way down to me and informed me I used to be value one thing.” And we mentioned, “Guess what? You’re now that grownup.” And that basically resonated with them.
I knew it labored, as a result of that first fall that we got here again after that coaching, I used to be getting complaints from principals saying, “What did you do with my safety officer? He’s smooth. He’s a special particular person. What did you do?” That’s once we realized, Okay, now we have to prepare the administration.
One of many first stuff you confronted on this job was the closure of fifty elementary faculties. What are your recollections of that point and the way do you are feeling like that went?
It appears like 1,000,000 years in the past. The choice had been made on the higher ranges and so understanding that that call was going to occur with or with none of us, the subsequent factor was: How can we do that in a means that may ensure that kids are protected?
We believed again then, as I do now, as I did even earlier than that, it’s all concerning the engagement. As a lot as folks didn’t like that call, we needed to go in there and face households and speak to them about it. What are we going to do to maintain your kids protected? What are your fears? What can we do about their bodily and emotional security?
We had, I’m not exaggerating, a whole lot of mum or dad conferences individually, and I attended each single one, and the significance of that was to construct the connection so folks knew: I’m not hiding from this. You may name me, you may electronic mail me, and I’ll reply. You’re going to see our plans. And for these of you coming to this assembly, you should have a say within the creation of the plan. For those who don’t prefer it, we’ll speak about it. We’ll determine it out. These are security transition plans — the protected passage maps — dad and mom wrote these maps with us.
Extra lately, amid the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 and the police killing of George Floyd, there was an effort to take away police from faculties, which culminated in the board ending the contract final spring. How did you evolve on the query of whether or not or not police ought to be stationed in faculties?
I can speak about that fairly overtly now. My job, I really feel, has been profitable due to my partnership with the Chicago Police Division. I’m so grateful. We didn’t rely what number of superintendents I needed to work with at CPD, however these come from relationships as nicely. All of the commanders, all of the chiefs over there, I simply wish to placed on the document that they’ve been superb companions.
When the reckoning round police and faculties got here, I knew that folks weren’t on the identical web page. We had many colleges that needed them eliminated. We had many colleges who needed to maintain them. The board was blended too on the time. A few of them mentioned, “We completely wish to take away police.” And the opposite half are like, “We completely don’t wish to take away police.”
We introduced in 5 organizations, 4 of whom are nonetheless with us on the trouble. These are neighborhood organizations who care deeply about this subject. They needed police out of faculties, however additionally they perceive we’ve got to honor the spirit of the engagement.
I acquired the board to agree, “Allow us to do that engagement.” They needed to only pull them out wholeheartedly they usually may need had the votes to try this. Different faculty districts had been pulling them out left and proper.
For those who pull police out with out engagement, if you happen to do it unilaterally, and one dangerous factor occurs. Guess what? They’re going to come back proper again in. That flip flopping is definitely extra harmful than both resolution.
We’re equipping faculties with the setup, the circumstances, and the purchase in. They want to ensure this sticks. As a result of as soon as we take away them, I’m not going again to CPD and saying. Oh, we want you again, and that’s not the best reply for communities, proper?
We labored with these companions to develop a course of the place we allowed Native Faculty Councils to vote, and this was created out of the engagement and interviewing tons of individuals, hundreds of individuals, doing surveys with hundreds of individuals. We got here up with a course of to vote. And it actually backed up my speculation. Nearly half the faculties eliminated them. Nearly half of them stored them.
And simply final summer season, the brand new board determined, “Okay, 4 years. We’ve given you 4 years. Let’s begin transferring them out.” I believe it could have been useful to have extra time.
Have you ever gotten suggestions from safety officers or faculty directors that want sworn Chicago cops had been nonetheless in faculties?
I haven’t had a single particular person, not a safety officer, not a mum or dad, not a principal, not a instructor, say, “I would like or I want them again.” And right here’s why, as a result of the police are nonetheless companions. If we’ve got a catastrophic scenario the place we want their help, we’ve got a course of in place the place we are able to work with them, and that’s the advantage of having that partnership and relationship. So it’s not like we’ve reduce ties with the police. It’s only a matter of reassigning the position.
I believe that was the distinction in another faculty districts. It was a extra hostile separation, virtually like a divorce, the place they had been slicing ties. And that was by no means one thing I’d have supported. That doesn’t work. We’d like one another. Let’s speak about how we outline that relationship and the way we do it in order that we’re each profitable.
Wanting again, do you’ve any regrets, or something you’ll do in another way?
I attempt to stay my life with no regrets. I believe that there are classes discovered versus regrets. I may need mentioned just a few issues another way, however I believe how I approached each problem and each interplay — if there was one thing to have discovered from it, then I’m continually correcting course. However so far as regrets, this has been the very best alternative of a lifetime for me.
I actually wasn’t seeking to go away. And I’m not leaving as a result of I don’t prefer it. I truly adore it right here, and I’ve delayed my departure. I actually may have left rather a lot earlier, and I simply delayed it as a result of I’m so dedicated and I adore it. I really like the folks. I really like the scholars. I really like the mission. I really like all my safety officers, and so it’s a tough separation. The excellent news is, I’m not separated. Everybody’s going to have my contact data. I’m staying in Chicago. I’ve not introduced but what I’m doing but, however it’s going to be in class security, and it’s going to be related to this work from only a completely different vantage level.
The place are we as a metropolis with youth violence, and the place do you see it going from right here? Has it gotten higher? Has it gotten worse?
This is a crucial query to me. Thanks for asking.
After I joined CPS, if a pupil was shot and killed exterior of the varsity, there actually wasn’t a lot of a comply with up, to be actual trustworthy. I imply, there was a disaster staff again there for grief counseling, in order that existed, however the comply with as much as what occurred? Why did this incident occur, and what are the results of this youngster’s pals, his household, and the way do we all know this isn’t going to occur to considered one of them?
The reply on the time was, “Properly, it didn’t occur on faculty grounds.” Which, by the best way, it often doesn’t. And folks had been like, “That is CPD’s job.” That mindset was not ample, that was not acceptable. And so we began to make it our enterprise.
We’ve an entire strategy. How are we going to enter faculty? How are we going to reply? Who had been this youngster’s pals? How will we guarantee that we’ve got the suitable plans for pals, opposition, no matter, to ensure there isn’t a cycle of retaliation?
We’re additionally offering emotional help, and that’s the place the disaster staff is available in. I believe most adults have misplaced a liked one in some unspecified time in the future of their life or different. That grief as an grownup is large. As a toddler, it’s unspeakable, as a result of it’s not pure.
While you lose a toddler, a pal, your finest pal, how do you course of that? We labored arduous to guarantee that we had protocols in place. Not simply following an inventory, however ensuring from the human facet, how are we supporting this youngster and their household?
To reply the query of: the place are we now when it comes to youth violence?
We had the spike from COVID. Now, it’s going again down and my staff is aware of the aim continues to be to get it to zero. Violence may be very cussed, and there’s all these different issues which have past the pandemic which have arisen. I believe that we’re on observe to reclaim that progress, and it’s nonetheless our aim, as a result of if we’re right here to coach kids, we are able to’t do it in the event that they’re not protected bodily and emotionally.
With the town, we’ve labored with the state’s lawyer, we work with the general public defender’s workplace, we work with the neighborhood organizations. We’re all related. So if there’s one thing we are able to’t do, we’ve got somebody that we are able to work with who can do it, and vice versa.
Correction 2/3/2025: This story has been corrected to say Chou began on the district in 2011, not 2012.
Becky Vevea is the bureau chief for Chalkbeat Chicago. Contact Becky at bvevea@chalkbeat.org.