EXPERT Q&A — There may be rising give attention to the vulnerability of undersea cables — a crucial infrastructure which is vital to a lot of worldwide communications. They’ve been broken in numerous hotspots world wide, with some incidents pointing to nefarious actors. One other risk past bodily injury is the potential for intrusions and tapping, particularly relating to U.S.-linked cables and China. Central to this situation is the dominance of Chinese language corporations in making, sustaining or repairing the cables linked to the U.S. In July, the chairs of three Home committees wrote to the CEOs of Google, Meta, Microsoft, and Amazon to report on how uncovered cables are to China on this means.
The Cipher Temporary spoke with Beth Sanner, former Deputy Director of Nationwide Intelligence at ODNI, to evaluate the Chinese language risk to undersea cables and why it’s so difficult for the U.S. to mitigate the chance. Our dialog has been edited for size and readability.
The Cipher Temporary: What’s the fear right here? What is the sort of nightmare situation? Why is the Congress asking the tech corporations to report again on these items?
Sanner: A lot of our communications flows by way of these cables, together with encrypted categorized data. There may be plenty of stuff that’s vital. Not all of it’s categorized, after all — simply on a regular basis supplies from monetary transactions or individuals’s connections to the web. So there are clearly a number of explanation why we must always take into account undersea cables as a part of U.S. crucial infrastructure. However that crucial infrastructure, in contrast to most of what we speak about, is not solely in the US. In reality, all of that is outdoors the US, and never even all of that connects on to the US. The vulnerability is so world as a result of we’re sending monetary transactions between the US and Singapore, for instance, and even for China.
The Cipher Temporary: There isn’t any scarcity of points the place the identical considerations apply by way of China having a hand in areas of our lives that contain knowledge seize and knowledge assortment. Right here, it is very exhausting to see how A, one would know precisely the place that Chinese language hand is, and B, for instance one in every of these corporations comes again and says, effectively, we expect that perhaps a Chinese language entity does some upkeep work. I think about it is fairly exhausting to immediately shift gears for Meta or Google or the opposite corporations to say, okay, we’ll simply immediately have one other upkeep firm that is not Chinese language.
Sanner: Proper, so let’s break that down a little bit bit. First, the best way that data flows over these strains, it is very exhausting to limit the place issues go. The messaging site visitors tends to go on the strains which have the least quantity of resistance and essentially the most effectivity. So, your knowledge may be going nearly anyplace.
And we all know that the FCC goes to be assembly in August and contemplating, and I’d wager that they will, banning any Chinese language tools in cables that hook up with the US. (Editor’s Notice: On August 7, 2025 the FCC banned using tools and companies from Chinese language corporations on its “Lined Record” and different businesses’ lists of entities deemed nationwide safety threats on any future undersea cables connecting to the U.S.)
That implies to me that there is perhaps an issue that we do not learn about. Is there using Chinese language elements even contained in the cables connecting to the US? I can let you know all cables connecting to U.S. navy installations world wide, that I do know of, although there might be exceptions, I feel are dealt with by the American firm known as Subcom, which is owned by Cerberus, which Steve Feinberg, the now Deputy Secretary of Protection, was the co-CEO of till very just lately.
However we simply heard that Microsoft, of their cloud computing, with the U.S. DOD is utilizing Chinese language engineers for a part of the upkeep of the cloud. And so it makes you marvel, I suppose it is doable that individuals are doing silly issues like utilizing items like switching units. These switching units direct the transmission of the sunshine, or they might shut it down. What if these elements, identical to elements that we just lately heard have been embedded in photo voltaic panels within the grid in Texas, are transmitting again or someway managed by China? I do not know, that is past my engineering functionality, however I’d say that we’d have an issue there.
After which the third drawback I’d say is that this concept of the repairs, as a result of most cables which are reduce are by accident reduce. But when we depend on China for repairs, then one thing may be inserted in that course of to faucet that exact cable. And that may go on then indefinitely.
The Cipher Temporary: We have been simply speaking about among the reporting that among the large suppose tanks have performed, CSIS specifically, that means that whereas Chinese language corporations and entities aren’t the market leaders relating to the development of those cables which are reaching U.S. shores, they’ve a giant chunk of the market, two corporations specifically, relating to restore work.
Again to the primary query, out of your intelligence group background, how worrisome is that?
Sanner: Properly, that’s the potential to insert a faucet robotically. That is how it’s performed. So, any time a Chinese language ship restore operation is occurring by the corporate that is a subsidiary of Huawei or the opposite firm, all of those corporations report again to Beijing and positively may be not even compelled, simply instructed to try this mission. So I take into account that a completely excessive danger.
Now, my understanding is that Cerberus and Subcom are starting a fleet of restore ships. They’ve two ships on this fleet of cable restore ships, in response to one article that I learn in Reuters. That is all I do know is open supply, after all. And so I feel the US understands this weak spot. However my understanding, too, is that these Chinese language ships have repaired 25% of the cables which were reduce. So once more, our data may be on strains which are outdoors of our ecosystem. And I’ll say that, by way of the overarching situation right here, this can be a non-public sector endeavor, proper? There aren’t any authorities owned cable strains. Not likely. This can be a non-public sector deal. And so that is the place public non-public partnership must work.
Join the Cyber Initiatives Group Sunday e-newsletter, delivering expert-level insights on the cyber and tech tales of the day – on to your inbox. Join the CIG e-newsletter at present.
The Cipher Temporary: Your level about American corporations now getting concerned within the restore work, the Home committee that appears at China and nationwide safety points has been so aggressive in every little thing from TikTok to all these different issues. Undersea cables have been round for some time. You’ll suppose it will not have taken this lengthy to do what you simply stated, which is have American corporations exit and do that in the event that they’re so frightened about it. Any ideas as to why?
Sanner: Someone’s obtained to pay for the contract to have it as a result of I feel we have simply counted on the non-public sector to do that.
The Cipher Temporary: After which the opposite query, are we at a stage now with this type of factor that if the corporate has any ties to Beijing that one must be frightened about it?
Sanner: I do suppose that it is true that something that is related to China is dangerous. We all know that China’s inside our crucial infrastructure in the US, proper? And they’re there to pre-position themselves in case of struggle, or perhaps at the same time as a preemptive factor to stop us from interfering in, for instance, a Taiwan invasion.
So I’d suppose that undersea cables aren’t any completely different relating to the US, however I feel now we have a broader situation of the potential of a concerted effort to chop cables world wide as a result of there’s little or no we will do to stop that besides in very outlined geographic areas. So NATO final 12 months arrange a working group centered on undersea cables and the safety of them. They usually’re engaged on growing techniques like AI techniques and distant sensing so as to monitor what is going on on and likewise to make use of that sensing to trace the actual ships that they suppose are problematic, both from the grey tankers or these cargo ships that they know are problematic. We would wish to duplicate that within the Pacific. And who’s going to try this? We do not have a NATO within the Pacific.
And so I feel that that may be a actual problem for us down the road. We won’t simply consider this as a geographic drawback that begins and ends with what connects to the US. I preserve seeing this. It is like, effectively, we do not care what occurs in Ukraine or we do not care what occurs, we’re right here in America. That simply doesn’t work anymore. Our geography is fantastic and it protects us from some issues, however relating to cyber and house and undersea cables, communications, that’s not sufficient. So now we have to suppose globally.
Opinions expressed are these of the interviewee and don’t characterize the views or opinions of The Cipher Temporary.
The Cipher Temporary is dedicated to publishing a spread of views on nationwide safety points submitted by deeply skilled nationwide safety professionals.
Have a perspective to share primarily based in your expertise within the nationwide safety discipline? Ship it to Editor@thecipherbrief.com for publication consideration.
Learn extra expert-driven nationwide safety insights, perspective and evaluation in The Cipher Temporary